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New bill in Colorado targets Indian mascots
Danielle Alberti — Mon, 2010-02-01 14:38
According to the Denver Post, Colorado State Sen. Suzanne Williams introduced a bill to the Colorado senate that would require all state high schools to either change their American Indian mascots or get permission from the Colorado Commission of Indian Affairs. The penalty for failing to do so would be a $1000 fine each month.
Williams estimates that 15 state high schools would be affected, including my own alma mater: the Kiowa Indians. Particularly contentious is the Lamar Savages from southeastern Colorado.
Proponents of the bill argue that goofy caricatures and unflattering names perpetuate offensive stereotypes about American Indians. Opponents say that they are proud of their high school's heritage, and that most mascots are in fact flattering.
Did you attend a high school with an American Indian mascot? Where do you stand? Can you think of any other racially-based mascots?
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don't judge a book by it's cover
skkys — Tue, 2010-02-09 14:25I am sensitive to plight of the native American. Our treatment of this group of people is a massive scar on the face of this nation in my opinion. However, there is one point that is always missed on the mascot discussions;
People choose to identify themselves with these mascots FOR THEIR POSITIVE traits! I graduated from Lamar High School, home of the Savages, and I more than sure the school identifies itself with the honor and tenacity of the native American spirit. Not sure I see the insult or injury in that. The county Lamar is in was name after a man who was married to Native American women, her father was Chief Ochinee, of the Cheyenne tribe. Ochinee was better known as One-Eyed Chief. He was later killed in Sand Creek.
Maybe savage wasn't the best name of choice judging all of the past but it's carried proudly. Maybe you'll think worse of the name cause of it's past but it was a given name, but maybe it's what makes the Savage name more proud to carry, you want to give honor and respect to those Native Americas.
This isn't just a racial issue it is also a matter of political correctness you don't have to agree but it is. We are trying to change something so someone or somebodies isn't hurt/offend. That is political correctness. Again you don't have to agree. Maybe I'm dancing on a fine line here.
Truthfully Sen. Williams has never visted Lamar high school. She's yet to drive down Savage Ave. (that's right it has it's very own street name) and see the senior statues inside or out there is a variety of art left behind by former students, every year a new one is added. Anything with the name Savage on it has to go, it would be the law if of course they weren't approved. All these would have be no more, the school would be inasense "bare".To many it's just a name you change it, has anyone stopped to think how much this will cost...anyone. It's not cheap, Like many of the other schools Savage Logo is all over, from the High School, to right when you enter town, to the Community building, and Savage Staduim.
THE COLORADO STATESMAN- "Other Colorado schools estimate it would cost between $100,000 to $200,000 to change mascot logos printed on uniforms, gymnasium floors and walls, dugouts, scoreboards, yearbooks, trophies, stationary and buses. Those expenses would have to be covered by the individual school districts, according to the bill."
That money could be use better. Sure some of you might say that it will pay for itself later, hmm...I'd love to give you the benifit of the doubt on that one but that's a lot of money that could be better use somewhere else. Education is important but hey lets not buy new books or computers, lets give the school a whole new make over beacaues again agree of not that what will happen.
School districts should show some respect and sensitivity, but you cannot legislate that any more than you can morality
What's in a name
Oldcowboy — Sat, 2010-02-06 10:20I have read with much interest everyone's comments on mascot names. I agree that to disparage the Native Americans of our country is reprehensable. Perhaps it is the lack of education in todays schools concerning the original peoples of our country that should be held accountable.
But consider this. In the USAF an accident involving nuclear weapons is called a Broken Arrow. The US Army, and I believe correctly, names it attack helicopters after Native tribes and I believe that this is out of RESPECT for the long years of conflict with those tribes. The US Navy has the TomaHawk cruise missle. I spent a total of 24 years in the military, starting in 1967 and ending in 2005, and if I thought an Apache chopper was after my ass I would be scared. I have seen them in action.
So should professional athletic teams and high school and college and even kids teams use Native American slang verbage for their teams ? I think in this day and age probably not. There needs to be the element of education and respect accorded to the use of Native names.
One of the most respected Native names this country ever had the good fortune to use, WIND TALKERS. Every school child should be taught about those courageous AMERICAN patriots.
Oldcowboy
With all Respect
McLintock — Fri, 2010-02-05 18:41This is a topic were it seems everybody as an opinion, and it is some thing we need to talk about, because PEOPLE are involved. But with all respect, the issue is NOT racism. Did the U.S. government wrong the American Indians? Yes they did, but like I posted its the government "feeling" guilty about the issue. Does that mean everybody is guilty? No, why should leave a school taking the blame. And I'am not trying to be mean, but we should be over this issue. The way something is viewed is in the eye of each person. And to say everybody views it one way of another is wrong, do you know what other people think?
People change, culture changes so we must realize that times change.
As much as I like the way of life in the past, America is not the same as it was.
Romans 8:28
I see the responses to this
nighthawksh — Fri, 2010-02-05 08:18I see the responses to this has wandered from politics to education to religion but few have actually addressed the core issue, which is indeed racism.
When any group is identified in a negitive manner, it reflects poorly on all involved.
This is not about being "politicaly correct." It is about the most basic human issue; a matter of respect for those whom we share this land with.
Being married (for 37 years) to a Native woman, I have seen a lot of this type of disrespect, based completely on the color of her skin. It makes me sick to know there are still those that have such an attitude in this modern world.
So, if any "mascot" shows a lack of respect toward a group of people, that should and must be changed!
You got a point nighthawksh.
La_cowgirl21 — Fri, 2010-02-05 18:30You got a point nighthawksh. I guess I wasn't thinking about it that way. Most of the mascots around here are various animals such as the tigers, lions, gators, yellow jackets, falcons, wildcats, etc. Think we even have one with the name of warriors or something. I wasn't really thinking about it being disrespectful. But your right. If there is any disrespect intended, then yes it does need to be changed.
Philippians 4: 13
Forum Moderator - American Cowboy
Choose Agitation or The Constitution
proverbs31 — Fri, 2010-02-05 18:02Every one of us has a tendency to impose our opinions to who ever opposes us. Many will go as far as confusing their emotions from their opinions. This generally is because we lack the practice of utilizing sound logic.
There are those who will entail their personal desires by all available means. This exaggeration of agitation for our fellow-men is doing nothing less than bringing an adoption of wrong means to bring about the “right opinion”. Let us not forget that good consciences are not touched by such forceful measures as threats and penalties. There is no mandate in our Constitution, giving any office in our government, this jurisdiction for such a decision.
Sojourner
Right On -nighthawksh
Concretecowboy — Fri, 2010-02-05 10:10You hit the nail on the head... I graduated from San Diego State University and we are the 'Aztecs' with Montezuma as our mascot. Needless to say, it has caused some controversy but as this is an ancient culture, it has been held to a different standard and does not reference American Indians.
What the controversy did do was make the yahoos and ignorant clean up their act in regards to how to portray this Mascot.
Mascot's
McLintock — Wed, 2010-02-03 17:15Is this a important thing for our government to worry about? Being political correct is the demise of America. And also where does this stop, are we going to ban schools from using animal names to! The real issue is the government "feels" guilty of the way the indians were/are treated, and it also the same issue with the blacks, any thing they say and you disagree it call racism, just look at the '08 campaign. Just leave the schools alone. We also get mixed up in was this our heritage or not. We live in a sad culture that can not take joy in the towns heritage.
Romans 8:28
What is in a NAME?
Concretecowboy — Wed, 2010-02-03 09:19I find it very interesting that such a simple idea can cause so much feeling that shows prejudice and self centered beliefs. Yes, using a characture and name that depicts another as 'less than', or bad, or different (not in a good way), is wrong. But you may not feel that way because it does not attack you or your family. Think!
I have seen many, many, cartoons of what 'city folk' think a cowboy is and it is not nice. And we all profess the 'cowboy way' that does not show red neck, tobacco chewing, double wide, illiterate, tank top, slack eyed, dirt encrusted cowboy hat, gopher shooting, cowboy image that some schools might use as a mascot - yahoo cowboys... Think! Because that image is out there.
It is a very little thing to ask others not to characterize other people. Just as you would want and expect other people to 'not' make fun of your beliefs and style (and believe me there is a whole world out there that can make fun of you for your different beliefs), I would ask each and every one of you to THINK before saying 'get over it' and political correctness is bad. Another word for 'political correctness' is RESPECT. If you respect your elders, how would you like to have a cartoon character of your grandparent as an 'old' fool as a mascot? They could call the high school - 'Geezers' and have a motto of 'grandma smells like ben-gay'. Now that's funny, except to grandmas... I for one, am glad that society has rules and regulations that stop others from hurting my grandma or my cowboy friends...
A Name has Many Variables
proverbs31 — Wed, 2010-02-03 13:34I THINK not! We have been smothered with politically correct syndrome. So smothered one could hardly.. Think. Have you forgotten what happened to our soldiers under the “political correct” coverage protecting Major Nidl Mlik Hasan? What gross benevolence given to protect him as if he were the victim! This is simply rotting to the core…Think! He was not a, “man caused disaster” this was an Islamic attack. Yes, there were many red flags prior to this gruesome attack. Nevertheless, this was never brought to the table. Why? Think…Political Correctness!
No dear Sir, “political correct” is not simply respect.
Sojourner
Respect is a two way street...
Concretecowboy — Wed, 2010-02-03 20:32"Men are respectable only as they respect." -RALPH WALDO EMERSON
"Let ua at all times remember that all Ameican citizens are brothers of a common country, and should dwell together in bonds of fraternal feeling." - ABRAHAM LINCOLN
"Civilization ceases when we no longer respect and no longer put into their correct places the fundamental values." -R.P. LEBRET
America needs to repent
proverbs31 — Tue, 2010-02-02 20:36This is just a symptom of the real problem here in America’s educational system. Education is a God--ordained responsibility and this responsibility, by Gods standard is the parents. The schools are merely an orphanage for children who have been educationally abandoned by their parents. The parent’s failure corresponds directly to the rise of state controlled education. Moreover, guess who controls the states! It is no longer, “We the People.”
Many generations now, have been duped and have been told what to think. This is only because of their laziness. Because of the “Tolerance” philosophy and a whole host of other agenda hiding strategies, we now have shared gender bathrooms; books about having two mommies or two daddies; “safe sex” education, which is a lie; abortions organized through school counselors; the list goes on. Are we really so surprised at this mascot thing? Our society has a carnal wisdom, America does not know God. The education taught in our schools is the very agent causing our great ignorance. This is because we are and have been educated without the reverence to God.
For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. ---1 Corinthians 1:21
.
Sojourner
LOQUACITY
Concretecowboy — Wed, 2010-02-03 20:39"Speaking much is a sign of vanity, for he that is lavish with words is a niggard in deed." -SIR WALTER RALEIGH
Garrulity
proverbs31 — Wed, 2010-02-03 21:38"find it very interesting that such a simple idea can cause so much feeling that shows prejudice and self centered beliefs. Yes, using a characture and name that depicts another as 'less than', or bad, or different (not in a good way), is wrong. But you may not feel that way because it does not attack you or your family. Think!
I have seen many, many, cartoons of what 'city folk' think a cowboy is and it is not nice. And we all profess the 'cowboy way' that does not show red neck, tobacco chewing, double wide, illiterate, tank top, slack eyed, dirt encrusted cowboy hat, gopher shooting, cowboy image that some schools might use as a mascot - yahoo cowboys... Think! Because that image is out there.
It is a very little thing to ask others not to characterize other people. Just as you would want and expect other people to 'not' make fun of your beliefs and style (and believe me there is a whole world out there that can make fun of you for your different beliefs), I would ask each and every one of you to THINK before saying 'get over it' and political correctness is bad. Another word for 'political correctness' is RESPECT. If you respect your elders, how would you like to have a cartoon character of your grandparent as an 'old' fool as a mascot? They could call the high school - 'Geezers' and have a motto of 'grandma smells like ben-gay'. Now that's funny, except to grandmas... I for one, am glad that society has rules and regulations that stop others from hurting my grandma or my cowboy friends..." -Concretecowboy
I couldn't help but notice!
Sojourner
New bill in Colorado...
Tom_Horn — Tue, 2010-02-02 15:50Well finally the pollyteeshuns in Denver have found something that MAYBE they can handle. They haven't shown much in the way of handling anything else in this state without causing it to go bankrupt. When I grew up I had some black friends and mexican friends and indian friends right along with white ones. We joked and kidded each other about our differences in culture and color. We enjoyed each other and our different backgrounds. Now days in the "politically correct" environment it seems that the attorneys have decided that we can't make any mention of anything that might offend someone who knows an attorney. Now I know that alot of people have been repeatedly taught what the attorneys think we can or cannot say and how we should act around other people. It seems to me that when I was young we didn't have nearly as much problem with each other until we were taught otherwise. I was called on the carpet once in high school because a faculty member heard me call to a friend to wait for me. I was told that I couldn't call him Taco. So I told them to tell him not to call me Doughboy anymore then. Now maybe there are some people nowadays that are offended by words that are spoken without malicious intent and to them I say it must be a little wonderland that they're living in. It seems to me that all the attorneys are doing is stirring the pot to keep themselves employed. What's the number to that pollyteeshun in Denver? I've got an old pony that gets his feelings hurt everytime he hears about the Broncos not being as good as someone else. Maybe we can get those fellas in Denver to change their football team name so as not to offend our equine friends? To my red brothers if I have offended you and not the attorneys, Wonumayin kola.
Tom Horn,
Range Detective
words
John T — Tue, 2010-02-02 16:46hey Tom,
Always a pleasure to read your posts, I'm not sure I got the point of your story becuase I don't know what the bill is but I can relay a story that might add some perspective to it. In the town of Hadley Massachusettes a young girl who was in her freshman year dated one on the football players who was a senior at that school. This young woman grew up in ireland and recently imigrated to the us. Apparently this action infuriated some of her fellow classmates who relentlessly tormented her in school and out of school calling her names that I won't repeat on this site. They tormented her right up to the day where she went home walked in the closet and hung herself. They said the tormenting didn't stop with her death, they continued to berate her on face book the following day. I don't know what happened to the generation of today, some have referred to them as the "unspanked generation" But I can tell you something is seriously wrong with the way these kids are raised. I hope some day those girls get whats coming to them.
New bill in Colorado...2
Tom_Horn — Wed, 2010-02-03 05:39Well to John T and anyone else that had a little trouble following my meanderin'. The Readers Digest version of what I "meant" was simple. From where I sit on the ridge it's plain that EVERYTHING that the gubermint gets involved in just gets WORSE. Stay out of our lives! The folks that don't work for a living but just stir up trouble to keep their jobs are the problem. I think that the "unspanked generation" needs to get took to the woodshed. As far as the mascot deal, pollyteeshuns can't handle REAL issues so they focus on the non-issues. Maybe we could warm up on the attorneys behind the afore mentioned shed? To all the PC crowd, Real America belongs to Real Americans, didn't you get the memo?
Tom Horn,
Range Detective
NEVER VOTE FOR AN INCUMBENT
Concretecowboy — Sun, 2010-02-07 08:23Don't know why I went back to the older blogs but this one just seems to keep drawing me back. Tom_Horn, I agree and agree with you... The career politicians need to get out and 'real Americans' need to get in... Unfortunately, it will not happen with the division of Americans we have today.
I am going to digress from the Mascot theme here, please forgive me... We all know and agree that the "pollteeshuns" (as you say) have screwed things up and constantly fail to hear ''Real Americans''. The problem is that politicians have us divided by the very system that is supposed to make us a democratic society. We have been divided with the idea that right is better than left, liberal is better than conservative, and being one or the other is the only choice we have to be the 'Real Americans'. This division is what keeps "pollyteeshuns'' in power and the sad, sad truth is that all career politicians are 'ALL' the same.
I could expand on this idea, but that will be for another day and another forum... For now, please take up the call and let the revolution begin to take back control of our elected government and the only way to do this - is to -- NEVER, NEVER VOTE FOR AN INCUMBENT -- never re-elect a career politician - they are ALL the same...
You have a good idea, but one
nighthawksh — Sun, 2010-02-07 09:05You have a good idea, but one that will not work. For a candidate to be elected, first they must raise bundles of money, then they must appeal to a certain ideology. I use ideology rather than party. For instance, I would never vote for a conservative just as many will never vote for a liberal. That leave few options.
So, such as here in South Dakota, our incumbent Representative is a Democrat. The only opposition she really has are Republicans. I will not vote for the conservative Republican so I either vote for the incumbent or not vote at all, which I will never do. I have voted every two years since 1964 and I will continue to do so.
Also, both houses of Congress run based on senority, within party. Having no senority would result in complete re-writting of rules, which, while maybe a great idea, will not happen.
So, while I would like to see the end of our "professional" politicians, I just do not see that happening. There is far too much money and ideology involved.
Constitution
McLintock — Sun, 2010-02-07 19:34Our congress is set not by seniority are anything with in the men in congress. Voting all new people in will not re-write the rules. The rules are set in the Constitution, a thing we need to get back to. It was the intent the Fathers of our country had in mind, to have new people in congress at all times, and not 50 years. I guess it a issue the left can not get.
Romans 8:28
The rules of Congress are
nighthawksh — Mon, 2010-02-08 11:50The rules of Congress are written by each House, Article 1, Section 5 of the constitution gives the the right and ther responsibility to do so. If the senority issue is to be changed, it takes the vote of the appropriate House.
Your comment
"It was the intent the Fathers of our country had in mind, to have new people in congress at all times, and not 50 years."
is also incorrect. If our founders wanted that, they would have established term limits, as they did on the office of the President. They did not.
And
"I guess it a issue the left can not get"
This has nothing to do with the left or the right, Democrat or Republican. It has to do with the Constitution and how it is written.
Tom you are soooo
La_cowgirl21 — Wed, 2010-02-03 18:08Tom you are soooo right....too many times I see a child cutting up in public and i think so myself (and try not to say it out loud...) "that kid just needs their butt tore up!!!! Back when I was a kid (which wasnt all that long ago compared to some but still lol) we got our butts tore up when we needed it and we turned out for the better in my opinion...and if our parents said "you just wait till i get you home" you prayed that they would forget before you got there!.
I think that the politicians that are currently holding office need to stop worrying about the b.s. and get down to the real issues and problems. or need to be voted out!!!
Saw a bumper sticker in an email the other day that said "So far the Change Sucks!!!"
Philippians 4: 13
Forum Moderator - American Cowboy